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1, December 18, 2007 at 6:56 am
To be honest, I’m somewhat divided on the issue. On one hand, I couldn’t ignore the fact that constitutionally, it would be illegal, due to the “seperation of church & state” & scripture says we are to obey the laws of the land, unless they conflict with God’s laws (which I’m not quite sure where this would stand). However, this “seperation”, in my opinion, is nothing but a piece of official fiction, for the most part. We have schools teaching yoga as part of the ciricculum, teachers have students dress in Islamic garb & being taught about the Koran in the name of “cultural diversity”, yet you are rebuked in a public school for even mentioning the name of our LORD, Jesus Christ.
I must also say, that while it may not be appropriate for an 8th grade public school health class, I must commend this teacher in sharing with his students, the TRUTH about eternity. People are calling for religious tolerance, but the truth is that the LORD will not be tolerant of other beliefs on the day of judgement. Either you accept His offer of atonement for your sins & will be allowed access to his prescence in eternity, either in the indermediate heaven, when you die, are raptured, or are martyred during the tribulation, or the millenial reign of Christ if you come to faith & survive to the end of the tribulation & finally on the recreated earth. If you reject Him, be you Muslim, Buddhist, atheist, agnostic, Jew, Hindu, etc. you will spend eternity in a place of torment.
1, December 18, 2007 at 7:53 am
Very well said, Caleb. Thank you for your comment.
1, December 18, 2007 at 11:19 am
While this forum is not the stage for ‘political’ debate, I couldn’t help to comment on the first response from ‘Caleb’. Caleb, I do not know you nor am I stating that you are incorrect in your response, however, I think your comment is incomplete and may be misleading to a certain extent. I certainly don’t question your heart and intenet here so please forgive any misconceptions. I want to respond to a piece of your comment:
“On one hand, I couldn’t ignore the fact that constitutionally, it would be illegal, due to the “seperation of church & state””,
this comment is un-true, let’s look at the original writing of the 1st amendment;
“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.”
1st off - the amendment says that “CONGRESS”, shall make no “LAW”, respecting an establishment. It doesn’t say that citizens can’t express there religion! Nor does it give the school district the “inherent” right to abridge the free speech thereof. This is what most people falsely believe it does. Actually, if you read into this amendment, the way that most people do, it actually puts the school district in violation of the amendment, for there actions, not the teacher. Again, Congress is not involved here and no law is being propagated. Context is everything!!!
2nd off - what most people do…like some in reading scripture, is leave off the complete passage or in this case the rest of the amendment. “OR PROHIBITING the free exercise thereof”. What is happening in actuality is that the disgruntled folks who don’t like Christ are having the government police and force there “un-belief”, which is a belief non the less, on us Christians. After all, it is impossible to believe in “nothing”! Right? This goes in direct violation of what the amendment was written to protect. Me, you and the plumber, in this case, the teacher, from sharing Christ and talking about the Lord.
This situation above, is in partiality, the reason that the colonists came to America and the intent of the founding fathers in writing the Constitution of our nation to protect. Although my heart and my mind belong to Christ, I am still a citizen (physically) of the USA and this is a hill that is worth standing on and defending. My right to exercise my faith and resist the proud, unsaved, vipers of our day. That is what the Constitution protects and no school, government, etc can stop that as long as that document is where it is and that flag still flys. The flag that represents freedom and liberty to all those who call her ours.
All the things which we enjoy and espouse are of course by God’s gracious gift and mercies. And, I pray that he will protect and preserve us longer in order that we might see more people saved and that He may be glorified in that cause.
All I have is Christ, nothing else.
Bob
1, December 18, 2007 at 2:05 pm
Okay… a little history lesson is in order. Originally, the original 10 Amendments to the Constitution applied in a very limited scope. When these were written, they were limitations placed only on the Federal Government only. The First Ammendment did not universally apply to the governments of the States and only limited Congress from establishing or forbidding religion, etc, etc.
Consequently, states were free to limit and exercise religion and free speech as they saw fit. Up into the 1820s there were many “state churches” in the United States that held an official religion for that state. As an example, Massachusetts did not disestablish its official church until 1833, more than forty years after the ratification of the First Amendment. It should be noted that the state of Massachusetts continued to have official establishments of religion in local areas for many years after that. The Supreme Court upheld this understanding in “Barron v. Baltimore” (1833) which stated that freedoms granted by the Bill of Rights were only restrictions upon the federal government alone (specifically the 5th Ammendment in this case) and that the rights did not restrict state governments.
This changed after the “Gitlow v. New York” decision (1925) which bound states to the limitations of the Federal Government in the Bill of Rights using the 14th Amendment (which had been ratified in 1868.) These developments effectively overturned “Barron v. Baltimore” and reserved the rights of the Amendments to the state goverments as well. So, the free exercise of religion at the individual level was not a product of the U.S. Constitution, but rather of the 14th Ammendment which became law many decades later.
How does this apply? Well, if the school is an extension of the US government (state or federal) then its representatives (teachers and staff) cannot establish or promote the exercise of a state religion. Alternatively, if the school is not an extension of the US government, then the school itself has a right to determine what is taught, who may teach, and what they can say. The Bill of Rights extends to the government and not to individual citizens. Just as a Christian school has the right to prevent atheists from teaching, a secular school has the right to prevent Christian teachers from teaching.
This does not prevent the teacher from exercising his/her religion. It prevents him/her from using their granted authority as a platform to address an otherwise captive audience. Since students under a certain age are required by law to attend public school, a school that teaches or promotes a particular religion is teaching that religion with the weight and authority of civil law.
This is why government schools are always a bad idea.
1, June 5, 2008 at 6:38 am
I believe Peter left us a wonderful example in the book of Acts chapter 4 versus 18-20 in which the government leaders commanded them not to speak, teach or perform any miracles in the name of Jesus. Peter responded “Whether it is right in the sight of God to listen to you more than to God, you judge. For we cannot but speak the things which we have seen and heard.”
Although we are commanded to obey the laws of the land, we are also commanded to listen to God above men, and to be quite honest, I dont care to discuss the legalism of sharing faith in this country which is to the best of my knowledge “free” because there are so many communist countries such as Cuba and China (despite everyone saying its a hybrid gov), and North Korea in which Christians DIE EVERY DAY because they share their faith!!
What then shall we say, that those saints in such places are outside God’s favor for sharing the Gospel of salvation when their man made laws prohibit such practices? Certainly NOT! For their obedience, they shall recieve a crown of life, because the scripture says “to live is Christ and to die is gain” therefore who shall we fear as His chosen people? In the day of our judgment, will we say “Lord I was forbidden by popular opinion or by the interpretation of the laws of men from sharing your message of salvation?” The truth is, I agree with Bob and Mike reguarding their knowledge of legal matters, however, even if the government decided to make sharing Christ illegal, I would still speak of His goodness. As the scripture says “I cannot but speak of the things which I have seen and heard” and I have seen and heard so much.
In a world where sex and cursing and violence is the norm for movies, drug addiction, alcohol, and sex the theme for music, and teen and pre-teen sex resulting in pregnacy is what is expected, in a world where there are more drugs in our schools than on the streets, and one out of every four teen girls has an STD, it is OUR RESPONSIBILITY CHURCH, to bring the good news to this world. Many will oppose the Gospel, but the truth is, they are rejecting Christ and not you, and you should “dust off your feet” and move on as the scripture declares.
Ecclesiastes 12:13-14 says “Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God and keep His commandments, for this is man’s all. For God will bring every work into judgement, including every secret thing, Whether good or evil.”
We must remember that above all the legalistic mumbo jumbo, is a divine judgment and a Holy judge before whom we will all stand and will have to give account for every word, thought, and action of our lives, including those things which we did not say, think or do for His glory.
May the love and grace of God be upon you through Christ Jesus, Amen